The c-word.

So in this latest Momversation video, I seem to be the lone parent who delighted in the mutilation of her child.

I must say, in the pre-edited footage Maggie was pretty neutral on the topic—she basically said she didn't want to circumcise her son, but she could see the arguments either way. In the editing process she turned all anti-circumcision, and as a result it looks like I'm being ganged up on. Which works for me, because now I get the sympathy vote. Also, weirdly, they made it look like I've got a shirt on. Computer magic!

This was a particularly difficult topic for me, because in addition to anticipating the hate mail I would receive (anti-circumcision crusaders, I've found, really want to make other people feel terrible about their decisions), I was defending a stance that's sort of, well, not mine. As I say in the video, Scott felt really strongly that his son should be circumcised, and I agreed on that grounds. Of course if I were really violently opposed I would have put up more of a fight, but neither was I entirely gung ho on the procedure. So being put in a position to defend circumcision feels odd, to say the least.

Maggie made a great point in the original footage; basically she said, why do we feel that in order for our opinion to be right, we have to make sure that everyone who feels differently is wrong? And I think that pretty much sums up the fights about co-sleeping and breastfeeding and circumcision and crying it out and pretty much every single topic in these tiresome, endless mommy wars. In the end, we each do what we think is best for our families. What place does anyone else have to pass judgment?

Comments

[Keri]

"why do we feel that in order for our opinion to be right, we have to make sure that everyone who feels differently is wrong? And I think that pretty much sums up the fights about co-sleeping and breastfeeding and circumcision and crying it out and pretty much every single topic in these tiresome, endless mommy wars. In the end, we each do what we think is best for our families. What place does anyone else have to pass judgment?"

Most level-headed piece of conversation about the mommy-wars I've read. Thank you.

[The Window Seat]

Oh, THAT C word.

I don't have a son yet, but I plan on getting it done. I can see both sides but for me circumcision seems like the right answer. I'm descended from the Judeo-Christian tradition and it has meaning to that.

[Ariel]

I love you Alice! :) And in the end, if I ever have a boy, I'll defer to my husbands judgment in the matter because, after all, he's got one, and I don't!

[Kate]

BIG FAT HUGE DITTOS and THANK YOUS to you (and Keri)

[Jen]

We used a twist on the "husband's choice" plan. I told him how much I didn't want to circ (which was probably a 7 on a scale of 10) and I told him that if he wanted to circ worse than I didn't want to, that we'd do it. In the end, he decided he didn't care (I think he really just didn't want to have to keep talking about it) and we left Orion intact.

It does amaze me what a hot button issue it is. The militant anti circ crusaders I've come across mainly seem to be just trying to out-progressive each other. No thanks.

[Jenny]

I really wish that people who have such strong opinions about something like circumcision would take that holier-than-thou attitude and direct it towards something worthwhile.

Do these people honestly believe that parents who choose to have their sons circumcised are on par with genital mutilators, or don't love their "tiny little babies" enough to spare them from a knife?

Hogwash.

If it's not right for you, don't do it. If you believe, for one or more personal reasons, that it is the right thing for your son, that's your business too. Can't we save the judgment for child abuse, equal rights to education and food, and other life-endangering concerns?

[exile on mom street]

I have to admit to being really relieved that by adopting my son, I got to "opt out" on a number of the Mommy Wars hot topics.

He was already circumcised (we adopted him at 20 days), I couldn't breast feed him, and the terms of the adoption required that he be immunized!

Yeah. Not feeling guilty about any of it.

[Jessica]

This did seem like one of those issues that draws definite judgment...and maybe it couldn't hurt that it did. It does seem like one of those judgments that are snappily made, or for some strange reason, given fully to male opinion to decide (that wasn't part of the gameplan!)

Hmm, makes me think to hear all these different perspectives. I would have laid there on the grill beside ya, but alas, I'm on these comfy sidelines here.

[hi kooky]

Yeah, that's topic I'm reeeeally glad to be past having to decide about. (bad syntax. sorry.)

[De in D.C.]

Alice, I ended up doing the same thing that you and Ariel discussed; I pretty much let the decision up to his father. He has that part and I don't. Admittedly, I think his reason was somewhat weak (he didn't want our son to look at his father and look at himself and wonder why he was different), but I didn't think it was that big of a deal. I had read the same study summary reports that showed a reduced incident of penile cancer and less likely to transmit STDs to a partner so that was my justification to myself. In hindsight I probably wouldn't have it done now if my was just delivering, but this was 9yrs ago and really, I just thought it was something everyone did.

[Ariel]

And I so DID NOT get that you were "delighted" or "joyful" about it, btw.

[Peggy]

Wow. What a powerful momservation. I have three boys (all circumsized), but a husband who is not (born in England). I did lots of research before our first son was born and presented it all to my husband who simply said that he felt different when he was growing up and he didn't want his son to feel the same way. He was teased all the way through college. There wasn't enough of an argument against doing it, so we did. I'm not sure where Daphne gets the "wound" information, but except for a little vaseline for a few days they had no problems. It is certainly not like female multilation at all. In many parts of Africa, they show an increased rate of HIV incidence in areas where it is not a custom to do male circumcism. (saw a whole show on it on PBS Frontline). Anyway, thanks for standing up for those of us with boys without "turtlenecks."

[Marinka]

I posted on the other blog, and now I'm here to blather on again. The first woman who spoke really chapped my ass, but maybe she was being intentionally provocative--saying that she is deadset against it, etc.I feel about circumcision the same way that I feel about abortion? Against it? Great, then don't get one. But stop shoving your views down everyone else's throat.

[J.]

I don't have kids, so I really can't be militant about circumcision, but my question would be, would I want it done to myself. So, no, then.

[ms curmudge0n]

Something that struck me while watching the video was that, though many women would fight a grizzly to stop someone from performing genital mutilation on their daughters, many men seem not to have that response to circumcision. My husband, at least, seems pretty neutral on the issue (it's not been a big thing for us, since we don't have kids).

And, seriously, looking at FGM vs. circumcision, there's very little similarity between the two procedures other than that they both involve reproductive organs.

[Barb @ getupandplay]

I agree, so wholeheartedly, that one can have a strong opinion about something without automatically making the dissenting opinion WRONG.

[michelle]

DUUUUUUUUUUUUUDE! You SO nailed it. Why can't *I* be right for *MY* family, and *you* be right for *yours*. DON'T GET THAT! Never have, never will. I think that way on pretty much every single topic that actually has a moral question (not like murder and shit, duh!)

As for this specific topic, here's my say, and how I came to the decision for my (our) son. I left it to dad. why? BECAUSE I DON'T HAVE A PENIS! To me this is a no brainer. If I had one I might have a vote that held up, but seeing as I don't, I think those with the goods have a more weighted, more learned vote.

so Dad wanted to. Adn while I cared, don't get me wrong (You get this, I know) I felt very strongly in giving Dad this one and trusting that he was right. I figured if I trusted him to put that thing in me, I could trust him to know how to treat one.

[Amanda]

It's just another debate in the never ending stream of parenting related issues. It gets so tiring, doesn't it? Circumcision, breast feeding, and oh my favorite, c-sections. I had to have one with my first and chose to have a repeat with my second. And wouldn't you know, that just pisses some people right off? Forget that the first one saved our lives, I should have tried harder, or something. There is judgement for everything. My biggest, most important challenge as a parent thus far, has been learning how to block it all out. I haven't completely figured out how to do that yet, but I am working at it. I enjoyed your contribution to the conversation.

[sarah]

I think that the fact that being circumcised reduces your HIV infection risk by 50% is enough of a reason to do it. Here are two studies on it: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/6176209.stm

[kimpossible]

I don't have anything terribly new or witty to add, but would "amen" that taking taking off foreskin is nothing like FGM, in intent nor physiology. Also, whether for religious, hygiene, familial tradition, or anything else, this something parents do because they think it is best for their son's mental/physical/spiritual health, not the opposite! It is done out of love. And although you can't "give it back" there are no studies (that I have ever heard of) that say you have perminently harmed you child. That being said, do what YOU think is best of ryour child-- just know I will do the same and expect the same level of respect.

[Robin]

I think your written summary of the topic here is probably the most compelling I've read.

So do you feel that the editors of Momversation erred in their editing to make it more sensational? I'm an editor (for a print publication) and we get blamed for that all the time. I just interested in your reaction to the editing.

[sarah]

Oh, also, I just heard Alice say there are studies calling into question some studies. I read one of the original articles about the nun working in Africa who first figured this out. She noticed a correlation in the communities she was serving and then overlayed a map of the HIV infection rates and circumcised/not-circumcised communities.

[Yolanda]

The more I think about this episode, the more annoyed I am at how it was handled. Circumcision is not a choice that I would make for my son. Just as I wouldn't pierce my daughter's ears unless and until she requests it. My feelings about circumcision are a bit stronger than that; but on the whole I view it as a mostly harmless form of body modification and feel the person who owns that body should be the one to make the call.

What upsets me about the Momversation discussion is that the question Daphne is asking isn't, "How did you come to the decision to circumcise your son or not?" She's saying, "Circumcision is wrong, now justify to me why you did it!" There is real an reasonable conversation that can happen around this choice (as with so many choices in parenting). But when it couched around "My choice is right. Tell me why yo don't agree with me"...then what exactly is the point of the conversation?

[Dad Gone Mad]

I have a mutilated penis, as does my son, and I've been in a sufficient number of locker rooms to know I much prefer my maimed-but-sexy member over a wanker that looks like an overcooked bratwurst being swallowed by a one-eyed, flesh-colored boa constrictor.

On a serious note, comparing circumcision to female genital mutilation is patently absurd and, in my opinion, represents a deplorable lack of empathy and education.

[Barb Cooper]

My cousin's parents decided not to circumcise him. Which was all well and fine until he developed some sort of persistent, reoccurring infection and had to be circumcised at age 12 after having undergone many, many bouts of antibiotics.

Dude's in his 30's now and he's STILL not over it. To each his own but...well..ouch.